Maxine Cuffe 00:03 

You’re listening to Speaking of Quality: Wealth Management Insights with Hank Smith. A podcast by The Haverford Trust Company. On Speaking of Quality, Hank chats with authors, influencers and wealth management experts to bring a sense of clarity and calm to the complexity and stress of personal finance. And now – here’s your host, Hank Smith. 

Hank Smith 00:25 

Hello, and welcome to another episode of “Speaking of Quality: Wealth Management Insights.” I’m your host, Hank Smith, Director and Head of Investment Strategy at The Haverford Trust Company. 

On this podcast, we explore topics ranging from quality investing, retirement resilience, stock market trends, estate planning, small business ownership, behavioral psychology and more. This season, my conversations with guests are focused on navigating change and the key decisions driving the future of the economy. Today, I’m honored to welcome Joyce Abbott. Joyce is a distinguished, award-winning, retired Philadelphia School District educator, author, public figure, and namesake of the popular ABC TV series called Abbott Elementary. She also recently headlined the Haverford Speaker Series for Women in September, speaking to women in the Philadelphia area about leadership through service and how to make a meaningful impact on the people around you. Thanks for being here, Joyce. 

Joyce Abbott 01:29 

Oh, thank you for having me. I’m very happy and excited to be here. Thank you. 

Hank Smith 01:33 

I feel like calling you Ms. Abbott. It’s just a habit of mine. Of all the educators in my life, I still call, not by their first name, but by their last name. 

Joyce Abbott 01:41 

Oh, Joyce is fine. But I understand. 

Hank Smith 01:45 

Before we get into your distinguished teaching career, you spent 10 years in the United States Army. Talk to us about what motivated you to enlist in the Army and some of your experiences and then the transition to teaching. 

Joyce Abbott 01:59 

Oh, great. Awesome. So, what motivated me to join the Army – at that time, I was going to go into an officer’s candidate program and obtain my master’s degree, of course without incurring an expense. But shortly after I joined the military, my husband and my daughter was born. So, I didn’t go the officer’s candidate route. However, I still ended up obtaining my master’s through being in the military, but that was my primary focus in obtaining my master’s degree. And I didn’t originally intend on staying as long because you only had to do a certain amount of time to get that funding for that. That was too much with undergraduate. So, that was my main focus or my main motivation behind me joining the military. But I loved the military, and I wanted to really retire from the military actually. But after I came back from the Persian Gulf War, and things did not work out with my marriage, my daughter’s father consistently being deployed, deployed, deployed. I had to decide to get out after 10 years. 

Hank Smith 02:59 

You were away from your 1-year-old daughter for nearly a year when you served in the Persian Gulf War. 

Joyce Abbott 03:06 

Exactly. And actually, when she was four weeks, a month, because that’s all you get in the military, I had to go to the Mojave Desert for 45 days, and she was just a month old, and that was extremely difficult. But at that time, me and her father were still in the area, and we were still together. So, between him and the babysitter, going to the Persian Gulf and leaving her for that extended period of time, it was extremely difficult. It was extremely difficult. 

Hank Smith 03:31 

And then at the tail end, there was a program offered by the military. I forget the name of it. 

Joyce Abbott 03:37 

Troops to Teachers! Actually, when I was looking into transitioning out, because that’s when I really had to get out, I was in Germany at the time, and I had to keep deploying. And at that time, I had no family in close proximity. And I was in Germany, and I was being deployed for like 30, 45 days, and I had to continually leave my young daughter with babysitters who were very dependable. I had a very close-knit group over in Grafenwöhr, Germany. But I decided that I could not continue to keep deploying like this. So that’s when I decided to get out, and during my time of transitioning out or preparing to transition out to Troops to Teachers because I was actually in one of the first cohorts of the Troops to Teachers program, and I was like, wow, you know what? I could go back to my first love because I always really wanted to be a teacher, but my undergraduate degree is in business and economics. And I went to college, I said, I’m going to go into business, but that really was not my true love. So, when I saw this opportunity, I was like, wow, I could go back to my true love. And again, they paid for all of my graduate degree coursework, my tests, taking the Praxis and everything to prepare me to teach in an inner-city school because that’s what you had to do, you had to go into which I was going to do anyway. 

Hank Smith 04:49 

And you’re from the inner city of Philadelphia, right? 

Joyce Abbott 04:53 

Yes, born and raised in West Philadelphia. I’m a proud product of the Philadelphia schools. From K through 12, I was a product of the Philadelphia school system. 

Hank Smith 05:02 

You wanted to come home, essentially? 

Joyce Abbott 05:04 

Yes. 

Hank Smith 05:07 

So, what were some of the lessons in the military that you found helpful as you transitioned into a teaching career? 

Joyce Abbott 05:16 

Oh, it was so many, but some that was important as far as transitioning into the teaching career, we were a team. That teamwork was important. Our platoon and that team and your battle buddy because we all have the same goal, the same mission. So, we had to come together to effectively accomplish that mission. So often, even when I transitioned into teaching, I didn’t agree with a lot of things teachers did. I didn’t even respect a lot of them as far as the profession. I could like you as a person, but outside of that, I knew I couldn’t just shut off. We are a team, so in order to effectively make a change in these students’ lives, we have to come together. So, I really was focused on team. I brought excellent attendance because in the military, you just couldn’t call out or get on a computer and call out. You had to get in full uniform to go and be excused from work. So, when I retired, I had so many days. I rarely took off my whole 20-plus years. I rarely took off. And just the stamina, the willpower, the never giving up, not being afraid of a challenge because I’d had several challenging situations that I did not think that I could overcome during my time in the military, especially when I was in combat. So, when I came into the classroom, and in my first year with 37 students, hardly any textbooks and the students cursing and the different levels, I did not run from that challenge. I did not run from that challenge. I didn’t say, oh, I can’t do this. No, how can I do this, and what am I going to do to make sure that I make a difference in these students’ lives? 

Hank Smith 06:52 

I’ve said over the years, one of the most important aspects of success is really simple. It’s called showing up. If you don’t show up, you can’t be successful. And these are things in your control. I mean, not everyone has the ability to be a rocket scientist, but everyone has the ability to control their attitude to show up. And, clearly, you showed up, and you required that of your students and the teamwork aspect of, look, we’re all going to succeed together. 

Joyce Abbott 07:23 

Exactly. 

Hank Smith 07:23 

And that is really hard in the classroom when you have children of different abilities. Some might be a little bit further behind in reading or what have you, but you bring them together, and they look after each other. 

Joyce Abbott 07:42 

It’s so important. We’re a team, and I establish that because teamwork is so important. We’re a team. One of us can’t get it. I mean, they would help each other out, sacrifice their own lunches. And so often I said, we’re not doing class trips if everyone cannot go. Because so often teachers will say, you can’t go and that’s because your behavior is awful. You’re not going. We are a team. We are one. If everyone can’t go – so Bobby is having a problem. We have to encourage Bobby, we have to work with him, we have to be patient so Bobby can join us. And so often parents and grandparents will say, Ms. Abbott, this is the first time my child has ever went on a trip since they’ve been in school. Thank you. 

Hank Smith 08:20 

What a way to learn outside of the classroom. And you talk about behavior, being polite, being quiet when you’re supposed to be quiet, and these are life lessons that obviously had a great impact. One of my favorite stories that you talked about was taking your class to one of the top restaurants in Philadelphia, the Chart House, and they all get dressed up. They all get picked up by limousines. They arrive, have a proper, three-course dinner. And I think you said, well, when you expect excellence, you need to reward excellence at an excellent restaurant. If you had taken them to Applebee’s, I don’t think you would’ve had the same impact as opposed to the Chart House. Nothing against Applebee’s. 

Joyce Abbott 09:08 

Exactly. Oh, no. Yeah, because they would said, Ms. Abbott, we can’t make it, because we worked extremely hard for that trip, and they said, we can’t go to Chart House. We go somewhere else. Oh no, we don’t give in. Because I said, even if it had to come out of my pocket, which it still came out of my pocket a little bit, we were going to do that because they worked hard. They came in at six or seven in the morning, and we did sales for the whole school, turkey and cheese, ham and cheese. We had the school store, the parents, I mean we work. And then on top of that, we maintain high academic excellence. We still achieved academic excellence while still doing this. It was hard, but I said In life, when you work hard, when you sacrifice, these are the places you go to. They’re like, oh, they wouldn’t have Chart House. I was like, oh. Because when you first started, the restaurant manager was like, we have a nice lunch menu. And I said, nope, top-of-the-line dinner menu. So, they chose from filet mignon, lobster tail and crab cakes, and I had them do the communication, although I was right there. They was like, Ms. Abbott, we’d rather talk to you. No, my students are going to communicate. I’m right there. And they would communicate. They handled the money. They handled the books. I said, look at you all! People couldn’t believe it. And they were just so excited. And Quinta actually was in that class, and she helped out. When I saw her dad when she got the key to the city, he said, Ms. Abbott, I remember when you came to my house at five o’clock in the morning to pick Quinta up. 

Hank Smith 10:28 

And she is the creator of Abbott Elementary and was one of your students in sixth grade. 

Joyce Abbott 10:36 

She was in my class, and she was a part of that Chart House trip. She worked extremely hard with me on the team. She’s one of the class leaders. She blossomed during her time in my class, and we did her and the guy Gregory, and actually, it’s the Gregory on the show, and there was another class leader of mine in my class named Gregory, and he was actually at when she had the key to the city. I was so happy to see them. But I said, when you work hard and you never give up, you just keep going. And even when the guys were counting the money, I let them be involved with everything. They said, well, we’re kind of short. And I really think the sad thing about it, also – I really think all of my colleagues and administration said she’s not going to pull this off because none of them really said, Ms. Abbot, if you need something like I would do if I saw another teacher trying to do this, let me help you. If you need something, something, I could do this for you, I can do that for you. It was none of that. I think the day we went, the principal said, do you have everything? How am I doing this if I don’t have everything? But it was something, but I said, we’re going to make it. And the parents were so excited. They were all outside the school. They were taking pictures, and it was really, really, really nice. And we had the Chart House to ourselves. And a lot of parents said, I’ve never been to the Chart House. And they loved it. We tipped all of the limo drivers, and I gave them the envelope. I said, this is what we do because this is great service. I explained all of that. I explained to them the table etiquette, everything, the forks. So, it was such a great learning lesson, and we were on the TV. That class really stayed in the news a lot. It really did, which a lot of my classes did. 

Hank Smith 12:18 

Speaking of positivity and great attitudes, and you can just hear it come through this podcast, you talk about that you stopped going to the teachers’ conference room or the teachers’ lounge because there was so much negativity that your fellow teachers were doing nothing but complaining. Complaining about students, complaining about this, that, and you didn’t want anything to do with negativity. 

Joyce Abbott 12:44 

With new teachers, that can really hinder their motivation. It could just hinder their success with their profession, but talking about, he didn’t do this or maybe the way a child smelled or their parents don’t care. And I would always have to be verbal. And I said, let me stop because I was so very verbal, and it bothered me, and it hindered me. In addition to that, I had students at lunch with me. My students ate with me. Sometimes the lunchroom was just loud, not clean, and they wanted to eat. I would put on soft music, and I tell them when we’re eating, we don’t talk with food in our mouth. We could talk softly. It was very calm. My room was always very comfortable. And after a while, my entire class would be up there eating, and they wouldn’t go to the lunchroom. And then when it was nice out, I said, you need to go out, because they would go outside after they left the lunchroom, and some of them would eat lunch and then go outside. But a lot of them just stayed in, and people couldn’t believe. You have kids with you all the time, but it’s fine. But you come in here, you see how my lunch is. I eat lunch. We have soft music. We relax when we’re eating. We are not yelling and screaming because the lunchroom was not conducive to eating at all. 

Hank Smith 13:59 

You have a chapter in your book titled “Never Say What Our Students Can’t Do.” And again, that’s about positivity and making these kids believe in themselves. But you can’t believe in yourself if your teachers or adult figures are always putting you down. 

Joyce Abbott 14:19 

Exactly. And same with if they can never do. One time I was really, really, really, extremely disgusted at a leadership meeting. I was on a leadership team, and these were leaders of the school, and we were preparing for the state testing and PSSA, and one of the leaders said, this test is like Greek to them. They could never do this. They can never do this. And people were chiming in, and I’m like, we’re sitting here as leaders of this school, and if we feel these children can’t do it, then how would we expect others to think because we are the leaders. It really bothered me, but it bothered me that other people did not speak up. But then after that, oh, Ms. Abbott, that’s good. You told them. You told them. You should say what you feel. But so often people are just so worried about speaking up or what they feel because they fear of retribution. But what are you going to do to me? I’m moving kids, my class is together, my scores are excellent, and I’m verbal, but I do my job. I don’t complain. And if I come to you, I’m going to come with solutions. And it’s about the children, but a lot of people just didn’t speak up. But you should never say what our students can’t do because so often students come to you, they’re three or four grade levels behind, and what teachers are saying, what am I expected to do? What am I going to do? They have not done anything for three or four years. What am I going to do? You’re going to try because that’s what I did. I had students come to me, and I was like, how they get – I mean that’s what made me cry, not at school but when I came home. I literally broke down and cried. I said, this should be illegal. They got this far, and they can’t read or write. And I’m like, oh, what am I going to do to teach these concepts for this test? So, I even gave up weekends. I asked parents, could I meet them in the library? And even teaching them things like onomatopoeia, alliteration, different figures of speech. I would go all the way down to maybe a kindergarten, first grade, second, so you can see this. If it’s a repeated letter, if it’s a sound, so you can recognize it, then I would take it up grades. It took a lot of time. It took a lot of time. I put in so much time, but it didn’t happen. It’s not like I just walked into a class, and okay, this, that and the other. And it happened. No, no, it was all nights, weekends, sometimes seven days a week. No. So it was difficult, but it can be done. And I believed in them, and I believed in them. 

Hank Smith 16:36 

And you were very outspoken about grade inflation, receiving a new sixth-grade kid who got A’s in fifth grade, and they can’t read. And you had the courage to address your fellow colleagues and say, how could you give them an A? They can’t read. Well, they read last year. They must have lost that ability over the summer. 

Joyce Abbott 17:04 

And I used to say, there’s no way you can lose the skill like that. And it made it so difficult for me because parents would come to me. My child’s on honor roll, my child’s on honor roll. And I did not want to just damper their happiness. But it shouldn’t be. It shouldn’t be. And so, for conferences, a lot of times I caught it. I caught it, especially in the beginning when parents saw Ds and Cs, they were just livid with me. But I just have to explain to them, I care too much about your child, and I have to sleep at night to give them this. But I said, I could tell you what I can do or what we can do to make that happen. But they’re not there. They’re not there. And then I would go to my colleagues, I say, you’re making it difficult for me. Well, they did the work for me. No, it just don’t work that way. And you had so many students with A’s and B’s, and you’re below basic. It don’t match. It just don’t match. You don’t get being below basic. It just don’t match. It don’t match. 

Hank Smith 18:06 

It’s a problem through K through 12. And even college and universities are giving out grades. I mean, you have these university classes where 95% of the classrooms gain an A and because, now this might not be the only reason, but I think it’s part of the reason, the students are grading their teacher, and that teacher wants a good report card from the students to get a better raise. And so, it’s a problem that’s really throughout and, ultimately, the end user, that’s not the expression I’m trying to come up with, but only it falls to companies, whether they’re private, public, small or large, to end up training these college kids that should already be proficient in a lot of areas. 

Joyce Abbott 19:03 

That is so interesting you said that because now I have met – I was just talking to my daughter about that the other day, more people with advanced degrees, they can’t even spell. I’m like, what? I don’t know if they have all this stuff on the computer where you could just put in something, and they could generate a paper, which didn’t happen when I was coming up. But it’s just shocking to me. It is shocking to me. 

Hank Smith 19:30 

Well, it leads into your views on artificial intelligence, and is this new technology, is this a threat to academia or will teachers be able to use it to improve outcomes? I don’t think we know the answer. 

Joyce Abbott 19:53 

Right, exactly. That could really go two ways because even when I first started, even with everything with technology in the digital clocks, students can’t tell time now, but it does have its benefits because even now in the job for so many things, either you have to be with technology because when we went to virtual learning, I had never did so much on a computer. I learned so much I didn’t know. So, it really, that’s difficult to answer, but I really, as far as personally, I really just like the old school, like kids can’t use a dictionary now. They can’t tell time. They can’t even write. Your signature is legal. They can’t even, because they don’t teach cursive anymore. So, most of the time I have to write and print because you can do anything on a computer. So, while the world is rapidly changing, especially with the AI thing, I mean it’s good to have some knowledge of that, but not when you’re losing sight of everything just basic. You’d be surprised. Kids can’t time. They can’t read a clock for sure. 

Hank Smith 20:55 

Well, there are quite a few things that aren’t taught in elementary, middle, and high school that I have a passion that should be taught. And one is financial literacy and another is civics. Although, through the Committee of Seventy and Lauren Cristella, they’re getting civics into our schools in Pennsylvania. But these are, to me, very important courses in addition to reading, writing, and arithmetic. 

Joyce Abbott 21:28 

Oh, I agree. I definitely agree. Financial literacy, especially in the community that I served in, that I was raised in, a lot of students have no idea the importance of money and just even how to save. When I was coming up, you took your little change, and you started a bank account, and you had a bank account at PSFS, and you started learning. You could see your money grow, you could save with your money, but they just don’t have any clue. And then if it’s not seen or modeled in the household, which a lot of times it’s not, a lot of times it’s not, how are they going to learn? And they need to learn because sometimes it could be to really help their family and explain that. But if it’s not modeled in the home, you can’t blame when the parents spend like that. Stop blaming that. Well, let’s start. We have to start changing it somewhere. And even, with civics, just having the basic knowledge of things in reference to, it’s just I agree with you 100% where learning is just more than the reading and math, and they just need to know so much more. That’s why I always went way overboard because I told my students, you always want to be able to be a productive member of a conversation. Most of them didn’t know – and this is real – the president, their state, their capital. They knew all of that in my class. I took that time and who was this and who was that. I took that time because it is important in addition to current events. And I said, why? And I explained to them why. So, if you hear a conversation, you could be a productive member. You could be aware. It’s so important to be aware. And I encourage them to always be aware, but those things are not taught. And they did have Drexel come in at one time. They were doing some financial literacy with selected classes. Of course, whenever they had the college students come and do something, they had to be with selected classes. So, the classes that had little behavior problems or run-ins together, they never had the opportunity to receive any of those things, so I could get an opportunity to participate in that. That wasn’t something consistent, but it was so good how they learn with money, and they build their own business, and they’ve really enjoyed that. And some of them just excelled so well with that. So, I know if it was something continual, they could really benefit from that. 

Hank Smith 23:55 

You know, the most impactful educator in my life was my high school English teacher. And it was more than just how he taught in the classroom. It was life lessons outside of the classroom. And I went to a boarding school in New England. And so, we had a formal, sit-down meals, and when you were at Mr. Lambert’s table, you demonstrated manners, and he would teach you and demand that you do that and you do it the right way. He had a great expression when someone was chewing with their mouth open or something like that. He would say, is this how you’re going to behave when you’re dining with the Queen of England? 

Joyce Abbott 24:42 

I love it. 

Hank Smith 24:44 

But he also encouraged all of his students to read two newspapers a day: read a national paper, whether that’s the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the LA Times, what have you, or even put the Christian Science Monitor into that list, and your local paper because you need to know what’s going on around you, even if it’s just the obituary section. Well, I took that to heart, and I can’t tell you how much I gained in conversations with adults when I was in college and right after college because I knew what they were talking about because I’d read the newspaper. 

Joyce Abbott 25:28 

Exactly. I used the newspaper a lot, especially for some of my young men. They really had difficulty reading, didn’t like reading. And I would get the paper, and I would get the sports section of the game and I said, okay, we’re going to look at this article. So, what is the main idea? Can you find, and they were so interested. They were able to pull out everything. Oh, this person, that’s a proper noun because that’s his name. And then they were really interested in, are we going to do the newspaper? And then you can take them outside of the sports section and show them the other sections. So, they really had their first experience, a lot of my students, of newspapers that I brought in, because we would always have newspapers delivered to the school. They would just sit down there. I said, no, we’re going to use these newspapers. 

Hank Smith 26:18 

And you also insisted that your students speak in complete sentences. That is so important because you’re making an impression. And we all, it’s just human nature, we profile. And if you don’t speak clearly, articulately, people draw an impression of you. So why not let them get a positive impression? 

Joyce Abbott 26:47 

Exactly. And they started to see it shouldn’t be out of the norm, but it was. Whenever anyone would come into our classroom, the Eagles’ Eye Bus, and they would say, these kids speak in complete sentences. How do you get them to speak in complete sentences? And it got to the point where my students would say, we speak the way we are supposed to speak, because I’ve always told them, you can always speak up for yourself as long as you do it in a respectful manner. Because they know I lead by example. I don’t eat. You don’t eat. There’s no eating in the room. And I told them, I will never be on my phone. If you hear me answer my phone, it’s because it’s something with my mother. Now my mother’s 103 now, but this was during my latter years, but before then. So, I know at times, they had guest teachers come in. And one time, it was a computer teacher. I went down in the library to do work, so she was coming into the room, and she just stayed on her phone. And one of my students said, with all due respect, we don’t use our phone here. She said, you just need to sit down. You need to sit down. And when I came in, they were like, Ms. Abbott, she just stayed on her phone, and she was talking. She was just, that’s when we asked her, and I had to pull her out and said, no. And she was shocked. The one time when I was out, they had my phone number. A guest teacher said, you guys are so well behaved, we’re going to play Seven Up. They said, with all due respect, we don’t play games. We use our time constructively. That means we work on something, but Seven Up not during our course of academics. And they were shocked to hear, what are these students speaking like this for? What? I’m going to let them play. They don’t want to play. No, no. And they would call me – I was hardly, rarely out. I know one time I was out, my mom was having a surgery, and they called me and the principal. They were like, your students, they don’t play. They said that the substitute wants them. The guest teacher wants them to play games because they’re so well behaved, and they’re refusing to play games. And they just couldn’t understand it. And they would say, I’ve never seen games like this because you’re not playing games. And I told them, people come in here, they don’t get paid to have you play games. Our education, we have too much to learn to play a game. Now Scrabble, I will allow Scrabble because it’s with your words, you’re extending your vocabulary. But all of these computer games and Seven Up and all that foolishness. We’re not doing it. 

Hank Smith 29:06 

So, yeah, I mentioned that you’re outspoken, and you’re also brutally honest. My eyes lit up when you posed this question: What profession is out there where you get three months off, you get a guaranteed raise, you get good benefits, and you’re completely ineffective? 

Joyce Abbott 29:29 

I know people are still in the classroom that continue to be ineffective. All you have to do is look at the data. I pull up the data every year. I always did when I was in the class. And year after year, you’re coming back talking about your fabulous summer vacations. You’re driving the top-of-the line car, but yet you’re coming into a needed community where education is going to be these kids and their families means for survival, and you are continuing to be ineffective, and you still have a job. And then when the raises come, my scores are out of pocket. I did very little vacations. I did very little. That’s why when Jimmy Kimmel granted me that vacation when I was on with Quinta, people didn’t see when the camera went off, I broke down. I literally cried. It took me 20 minutes to get together because it’s been so long since I had been on a vacation. And you’re talking about these fun vacations. But then when the raises come, oh, we have this raise. You’re getting the same raise I’m getting. People used to look at my scores and say, you holding that school down because my kids, the scores were amazing. But you still have a job. I know people still teaching and continue to be ineffective, and they still have a job after 15, 16, 17 years. 

Hank Smith 30:35 

So, Joyce, if you were named the Queen of education, what changes would you make, and what would you do differently that’s not being done today from an administrative standpoint? 

Joyce Abbott 30:58 

It is so much. But one thing, for teachers that are continuing to be effective and make moves, and I saw this in Atlanta when I spoke with KIPP Atlanta. It was like 10 teachers that moved students. It was a couple of them, more than 10, and they gave them a little bonus check just so we see you, we see your work because we see what you’re doing as far as that. And something I really think needs to be done with – you have a certain amount of years to continue to be ineffective before something happens. You can’t continue to produce below-basic kids and just implement something such as that. But with proper coaching. Prior to retiring, all you had to do was go interview and then do a test to be a coach. A lot of the coaches couldn’t even teach. So how are you going to coach? You were ineffective. So how are you going to coach someone to be effective when you were ineffective? I think in order for me to be a coach, you have to have a track record to be a coach. Because again, so often the coaches were, they were just ineffective, and so therefore they were ineffectively coaching the teachers that needed it most. Even as far as an administrator’s perspective, they have to be able to lead by example. Because so often when I was coming up, the administrators were older. They were older. Now, I’m not saying that young administrators are ineffective because I’ve seen some dynamite young administrators, but so often they haven’t even been in the game long enough. They haven’t been in the game long enough. So, if you really can’t come in and do what I do and come in and effectively teach a class, it is very difficult for me to receive feedback from you. Although I’m going to respect you as my leader, it’s difficult. But as far as effective teachers that really care, it can change the world. But you have to be effective and you have to really care, especially in our most needed communities. A lot of teachers, when they’re not effective at a school, they get forced transferred, not you are on a trial basis before you leave fired, forced transferred. Most of the time, they’re going into the poorest neighborhood, the school that needs effective educators the most. But nobody’s picking these schools because now you can pick and you site select and you go interview. So, you’re just being forced transferred to go to another school to continue and ruin lives. And they’re in the most desperate neighborhoods or communities that need teachers that can come in here and change lives. Because even our most difficult students, they can be turned around. I had desks thrown at me. I have been cursed out. I still never suspended anyone. I picked that desk up so I could finish teaching. I’ll deal with you later. 

Hank Smith 33:48 

So, you actually finished your career as an administrator. You were the Climate Manager at Andrew Hamilton School? 

Joyce Abbott 33:59 

When I first came out the classroom, I was Dean of Students, and then I transitioned to the Climate Manager role because my principal said, I need you to be a Climate Manager because it’s administrative. You are doing the same thing basically. But you could have more say over teachers because as a dean, you were still a part of the PFT union and technically speaking, you cannot really say so much to a teacher. 

Hank Smith 34:20 

What really surprised me, I found it a little counterintuitive, but the success of Abbott Elementary, the TV series, actually caused you to accelerate your retirement by one year. Can you share with us some of the thinking behind that? 

Joyce Abbott 34:39 

Oh, yeah, because I was going to retire in ’23. Everyone knew that was going to be my last year. So, when it actually came out, because I still wasn’t sure. My daughter had told me months ago, Quinta, because she followed Quinta as a comedian on social media, is doing the show, and it’s going to be named Abbott Elementary. I know it has something to do with you. But the one night I was watching Alicia Vitarelli on the news, and it confirmed it. After that, it was just like a whirlwind. I mean, I was on Jimmy Kimmel. I was on the front page of the Daily News. The news cameras were coming in the school, and I was handling discipline for an entire school. I was in a community that was very, the gun violence was very high. I handled all the altercations. I handled everything, and everyone is not happy for you. I was very outspoken. So, everyone was not happy for you. So, I said, you have over 20-something years. This one year with all this Abbott Elementary. You do one thing wrong: You break up a fight wrong. You say something wrong to a parent, anything, because all these eyes are on you. All these years, I said, and then Quinta worked very hard. And she named this show after you, and they said, oh, the teacher that inspired Abbott Elementary. I said, it only takes one thing. And I told my principal, I said, I’m coming out this year. I said, I’m not going to do one more year. All these years that I put in with never having a write-up, never any type of 204, never. I said, I’m not going to wait with all of this coming out because everyone is not happy. And everyone was not happy for me. So, you could really see that. And I came out, that’s why I came out early after it came out. I would’ve definitely stayed my last year. 

Hank Smith 36:26 

The pride you must feel to have a former student create a very successful TV series after you – it puts you in the living legend category. 

Joyce Abbott 36:40 

I guess it does. I don’t know. I guess I’m just so very humble. When people say, oh, that’s the Ms. Abbott. No, I just don’t. I mean, I look at myself as just Ms. Abbott, no big deal. 

Hank Smith 36:57 

So, one of the questions that just jumps out at me is, why aren’t there more Joyce Abbotts out there? Because what you talk about – you talk about passion, empathy, love. Anyone can demonstrate that. But not everyone has passions. People ask me why I’ve been with The Haverford Trust Company for 34 years. I say, it is really, really simple. I love what I do, passion. I love the people I work with, and the company treats me well. 

Joyce Abbott 37:33 

That’s good. That’s good. 

Hank Smith 37:35 

And look, could I go elsewhere? Could I go to New York City and maybe make more money? Perhaps, but I might not get those two other things. 

Joyce Abbott 37:43 

Right? That’s important. Yeah. 

Hank Smith 37:44 

Yeah, absolutely. So, to me, this isn’t work. I’m coming in, and I’m helping other people. In some ways, when you’re managing other people’s money, I call it the OPM department, you’re in the teaching business because if you’re not educating your clients, there’s a good chance you’re going to lose that client. So, these aren’t complicated. Your book, “Teaching the Ms. Abbott Way” is a must read, and the life lessons are more impactful than actually the teaching techniques and the way you controlled classrooms. And I highly recommend that book to our listening audience. 

Joyce Abbott 38:30 

Thank you. Thank you for that. Yes, it’s a pretty good book. We worked on it for a while. 

Hank Smith 38:35 

Well, Joyce, thank you for joining us on Speaking of Quality. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I learned a lot in hearing about your time in the Philadelphia School District and your philosophy on education and leadership. Priceless. Thank you for listening to this episode of Speaking of Quality: Wealth Management Insights. Our next episode will be released shortly. In the meantime, please send suggestions or questions for me or The Haverford Trust team to marketing@haverfordquality.com. And don’t forget to subscribe, rate, review, and share this podcast. Until next time, I’m Hank Smith. Stay bullish. 

Bryan Tracy 39:17 

Hello, all. That was a great episode. It’s time for Planning in Practice. I’m Bryan Tracy, Vice President and Director of Wealth Planning at Haverford Trust. In this segment, we’ll uncover key insights and tangible advice for your own wealth planning journey. So that was a wonderful episode. One of the things that I loved about Joyce and Hank’s conversation was this concept about showing up, having a disciplined approach and that aspect of showing up every day, being an important positive influence on yourself, but others. And Joyce talked about it as far as in the classroom, but this also applies in life as well as financial decisions and your personal finance over time. I also connected with their discussion on financial literacy, and I think the two – of showing up and being disciplined – connects well with financial literacy, and they reference the discussion around really schools and financial literacy programs. 

I know we talk with individuals and clients here at Haverford around this concept of financial literacy and how it really starts at home and how parents can have a meaningful impact on their children as it relates to their future self, whether positive or negative around their financial habits. Legacy is something that is discussed within financial planning and investments, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be about wealth. Wisdom, and a parent’s ability to shine a light on various financial aspects or wisdom, is potentially an even more important aspect of a legacy than necessarily the dollars and cents. And when you think about wisdom, you can think in the context of financial habits that you’re leaving for your children or teaching your children over time, curiosity in financial and investing, curiosity around financial decisions and investing, as well as money values and the meaning of money as it relates to you and your family. 

So, when we think about teaching these financial habits and these money lessons to our children, we typically kind of start basic, and we think about savings, investing, and budgeting. And these are all important aspects and should be aspects of a financial literacy or discussions you’re having with your children. But connecting it back to showing up every day, it’s really about creating that confidence in an individual and modeling that financial confidence in everyday decisions that you’re making and engaging with your children in those discussions. And when we think about that, we talk a lot about the everyday decisions you’re making around money and engaging your children in those kind of trade-offs that you may be making during the course of the day. We also can think about the reason, the why behind certain financial decisions – Why did you take out a mortgage to purchase your home or pay cash for it? – engaging in those conversations. And then also thinking about various age-appropriate kind of decisions, maybe around when’s an appropriate time to open up a credit card and start to build your credit, when to start a savings account and the reason that you’re doing that. These are all great discussions and engagement, possible engagement opportunities, to be involving your kids in conversations around money and financial decision making. Just like Joyce was a great teacher for her students, as parents, we can be great teachers for our children to be learning these financial concepts. Linking it back to showing up every day and thinking about financial literacy, finance can really be about small financial habits and the impact that those small financial habits have over time and over the long term. It doesn’t have to be one big lecture or sit down meeting where you’re discussing these concepts with your children. It really is just the daily discussions and moments that you could be shining light on various decisions and bringing your children into those conversations to allow them to be learning these various money concepts, et cetera. And in the end, you don’t have to be a financial expert. You really just need to be consistent, be present, and be mindful of engaging your children in those conversations. So, if you’re listening to these lessons today, and you’re thinking about the lessons that you may want to teach your children and grandchildren, start today. There’s no better time. Think about engaging them in the conversation and be moving forward from that perspective. Financial literacy is not something that we learn. It’s something that we live every day. So, if you’re starting or you’re interested in starting these family conversations or thinking about age-based, appropriate strategies to build financial literacy, we are happy to help and be a guide and a resource for you in these conversations. Thank you. 

Maxine Cuffe 44:22 

Thank you for listening to this episode of Speaking of Quality: Wealth Management Insights with Hank Smith. To hear future episodes of Speaking of Quality, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about The Haverford Trust Company, please visit https://haverfordquality.com/. This podcast is provided as general commentary and market overview, and should not be relied upon as research, a forecast or investment advice, and is not a recommendation, offer or solicitation to buy or sell any securities or to adopt an investment strategy. Any opinions expressed are as of the date this podcast was recorded and may change at any time and are the opinions of that commentator, not Haverford. Any opinion or information provided are believed by Haverford to be reliable at the time of this podcast’s recording, but are not necessarily all-inclusive or guaranteed for accuracy. Before making any financial decisions, please consult with an investment professional.