Podcast: Speaking of Quality
Season 6 Episode 6
Title: For the Phans: Lessons from a Philly Mascot

Episode Transcript:

Maxine Cuffe 00:03 

You’re listening to “Speaking of Quality” with Hank Smith, a podcast by The Haverford Trust Company. On “Speaking of Quality,” Hank features authors, business leaders and wealth management experts who share stories from their careers and insights on topics that impact financial wellness. And now, here’s your host, Hank Smith. 

Hank Smith 00:24 

Hello, and welcome to another episode of “Speaking of Quality.” I’m your host, Hank Smith, Director and Head of Investment Strategy at The Haverford Trust Company. On this podcast, we explore topics ranging from leadership and economics to civic engagement and community building. Today, I’m joined by Tom Burgoyne, entertainer, author, public speaker, and best known as the Phillie Phanatic’s “best friend.” Throughout his 36 years of bringing one of Philly’s beloved mascots to life, Tom has built a deep and powerful relationship with Philly fans and turned a local treasure into a national star. Welcome to “Speaking of Quality,” Tom. 

Tom Burgoyne 01:08 

Hey, thanks for having me, Hank. Excited to be here. 

Hank Smith 01:13 

Well, you are one popular individual for sure in the Philadelphia area. I know you prefer to say the Phillie Phanatic is your “best friend.” So, how’d you meet him? How did this nearly 40-year friendship come about? 

Tom Burgoyne 01:30 

It’s funny, and it’s the magic of the Phanatic because you run into the Phanatic, and you can make a memory that lasts a lifetime. And I remember the first time I ran into the Phanatic, and it was at a Phillies game. He had just come onto the scene in 1978, this might’ve been maybe the next year, and I’m at a game. And we ran into each other, and I’m looking right at the Phanatic, who I was a big fan of, and he gave me the big smooch, the signature, big smooch. And because I was such a fan, I knew exactly what he was going to do and that was spit it out. So, I actually, as a kid, pretended to spit out the kiss, and I think the Phanatic thought that was funny. And then, of course, you fast forward, let’s see, however many years to 1989, the Phillies put an ad in the newspaper looking for another “best friend” of the Phanatic, somebody to help out with appearances, public appearances. And I happened to see the ad. I graduated from Drexel University with a marketing degree, and the Phillies put this ad in the Inquirer one time, didn’t say anything about the Phillies, didn’t say anything about the Phanatic, it just said mascots wanted. And I had been a mascot at St. Joe’s Prep. I went to St. Joe’s Prep before Drexel, and so I was the Hawk for my senior year. So, I sent in a resume and a cover letter, and sure enough, two weeks later I get a call from the Phillies to come down, audition for the job in which I wound up getting, which was a miracle Hank, crazy, crazy stuff. 

Hank Smith 03:04 

Well, it sounds like a wonderful miracle. You’ve been at it for so long, and you don’t stay at something unless you enjoy it and have passion, and clearly you have that for sure. Tell us a little bit about, you mentioned the Phanatic was started in 1978. Who in the Philadelphia organization was kind of the brainchild of bringing this mascot to life, and you’re the second Phanatic. Tell us a little bit about the original. 

Tom Burgoyne 03:41 

Yeah, so it’s a great story. The San Diego Chicken for people out there listening might remember him as a character. He was out in San Diego. He actually worked for a radio station, and he would come and just go to San Diego Padre Games as part of a radio promotion, but he would entertain between innings in a costume, which was very different. And so, some Phillies people saw that; they came back to the vet in Philadelphia, and Bill Giles, who at the time was kind of our promotions and marketing genius and guru, later to become our President, said, “Yeah, let’s make our own costume.” And he did a very smart thing. He called Jim Henson of the Muppets, which he went right to the top, and they put us in touch with a woman who made a lot of those Muppet characters, including Miss Piggy. So, like the Phanatic and Miss Piggy are related somehow. So yeah, in coordination with the Phillies, they came up with a design. And Dave Raymond, as you mentioned, he was an intern at the time. His father was Tubby Raymond, famous coach for the Delaware Blue Hens football team. Dave was a little crazy, and Bill thought, boy, perfect guy for it. And Dave was the perfect guy. He was the performer for 16 years from ‘78 through the ‘93 season and really revolutionized the way a costume character can entertain at a sporting event. And I was fortunate enough, when I saw that ad in the paper, that was 1989, he had had a guy who helped with appearances for 11 years. And then I got the chance to work with Dave for five years until he moved on and started his own mascot consulting company. And I took over as kind of the main guy in 1994 doing all the games. And it’s been just a great run, Hank, a real dream come true for a Philadelphia sports nut like me. 

Hank Smith 05:45 

So, you mentioned you were the Hawk at St. Joe’s Prep. Did you also – it was entertaining – were you member of the Acting Guild or whatever club they called that at either St. Joe’s or Drexel? 

Tom Burgoyne 06:06 

No, I was just a knucklehead, Hank. That’s it. I like to say I was a class clown for sure. No formal training. People ask, oh, “You were the Hawk. Did you have to flap your wings at every time you’re in costume?” And I didn’t have to do that. I really did pattern the Hawk, my Hawk routine, my version of it after the Phanatic, and funny story, I wound up being interviewed when I was a senior in the school newspaper, the high school school newspaper. And when the kid interviewed me, he asked me, “Well, where are you going to go from here?” And I said, “Well, I’m going to be the Philly Phanatic, of course.” And so, I actually brought that brown, crinkled up school newspaper to my interview because I wanted to impress upon the Phillies like, hey, I predicted this about six years ago. So, it’s crazy how things come about. 

Hank Smith 07:01 

The Phillie Phanatic has a special connection to the thousands and thousands of baseball fans in Philadelphia and even beyond baseball fans, all Philadelphians. What do you think is the secret sauce behind that? It’s much more than any of the other mascots of our professional franchises in Philadelphia. And your “best friend” is out and about beyond just the, what do we play, 80-some-odd home games. You’re out and about in the community. Is that part of the secret sauce? 

Tom Burgoyne 07:44 

That sure is. The Phanatic has now a long history of making those public appearances, and I’m fortunate enough now to have a couple extra “best friends” who help us try to do as many of those, make as many of those appearances as we can. And I think that’s a big part of the success of the Phanatic. He’s been around a long time, and I think Philadelphia, in particular, respects that the Phanatic, he’s a working-class guy. He’s always out there. It’s consistent. It’s a great message. I think it works in Philadelphia because the Phanatic is as passionate as the fan base, the Phanatics out there. He wears his heart on his sleeve. You can see how excited he gets at the game. So, he’s a little wacky. And Philadelphia loves wacky. It’s the home of the Mummers. I said the Phanatic has got Mummers blood in him, I think, too. And I think Philadelphians appreciate that. Nationally, it has grown. The sports highlight films always seem to capture the Phanatic, that helps. I think sometimes I get calls from other teams or mascots who, hey, how do we pattern our program after the Phillies? And first of all, I think you have to have the right performer, somebody who’s going to be energetic and passionate about it. I think the costume is built just perfectly, really, it’s expressionless. The Phanatic can give it the expression. It kind of has a wide-eyed look of surprise, which is kind of perpetually on his face. And so, you can really bring that expression to life. And then probably most important, Hank, is the trust that the Phillies have put in me. It was Dave Raymond before and then me to go out and be entertaining without too many restrictions. It was just go out and have fun. It was a simple message. Bill Giles that first day told Dave Raymond, just go out and have fun, clean, G-rated, family-entertainment fun. Nothing over the top, nothing rude, nothing crude, don’t interfere with the game, but you can still have fun before the game with players, which was unheard of back then. Oh, a mascot’s going to actually interact with a player? And that was really revolutionary. Or even just being on the dugout during the game, there’s certain, I guess, teams don’t allow their mascots on the field, messing around with the players or on the dugout during the game, but the Phillies kind of saw the value of having the Phanatic front and center. So, I think there are lot of reasons why the Phanatic has become so popular. 

Hank Smith 10:30 

Well, I can tell you, as a lifelong Philadelphia Phillies fan, and all sports Philadelphia, that whether I’m at Citizens Park, whether I’m watching TV, the act never gets boring. 

Tom Burgoyne 10:47 

That’s great to hear. 

Hank Smith 10:50 

It is. And when the inning where you’re on the first base dugout and you’re engaging the fans, when you come out with the hot dog gun, which I just love, but again, whether I’m watching it on TV, it just never gets boring. So, I appreciate the creative part, but at the same time, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it. And the fans love it. 

Tom Burgoyne 11:24 

Yeah, it’s one of the greatest compliments that I can receive. And that is there are some really grizzled baseball veterans who’ve been around the game for a long time, and they tell me a lot of times, Tom, I’ve seen this act for 40 years. Some of these baseball writers or managers, coaches, guys who’ve seen it all, and they will compliment me, and it’s so nice to hear that they’ve seen it so many times, but they still laugh. Consistency, as I mentioned, is big. The Phanatic, I think people really love that familiarity when they come to the game and then they’ll, oh yeah, in the fifth inning he’s going to come out on the field. And then the hope is I’ve got an inventory of routines and hotdog shooting and messing with umpires or dance teams or there are a lot of things you can do in that window, but the people rely on it, and it’s familiar to them. So, I think one of the reasons why people still love it after all these years, because it’s such a familiar, warm, loving embrace of a thing, the Phanatic. 

Hank Smith 12:32 

Tom, you mentioned your outfit, and tell us a little bit about that. What are the controls you have inside, and how much does it weigh? And then, how do you get through those heat waves we have in July and August in the costume? You must lose 15 pounds of perspiration in there. 

Tom Burgoyne 13:02 

Yeah, well, I like to say you got to have a screw lose, Hank. I mean, to on a hundred degree day, throw on a 35-pound furry costume and run around like an idiot. But I’m very used to it. I tell people, hey, the Phanatic’s from the Galapagos Islands, that’s where he came from. He wasn’t born in Philly; he was born in the Galapagos. It’s a little dry and hot down there, so he’s used to the temperature. But no, those hot days can be a little rough, but it’s part of the job. I used to actually put ice packs around my belly at the Vet because, man, that AstroTurf would really get hot. But when we moved into the new ballpark in 2004, I stopped with the ice packs, and it really didn’t work, anyway. You just go out. I take breaks throughout the game. I’m kind of in and out of my dressing room where I have water and a fan, and then I’m back out there. So, I manage. 

Hank Smith 14:00 

And do you have great range of visibility in that? I mean, obviously a fan can’t see your eyes, but you see everything. 

Tom Burgoyne 14:08 

Yeah, I can see everything. Again, it’s like putting on an old pair of slippers. I’ve put my 10,000 hours-plus in, so I’m pretty used to it. You have to be careful, kids when they’re too low to you. I always have someone who follows me around just to make sure I’m not tripping over any little kids or any of that. But yeah, I manage. 

Hank Smith 14:32 

And you also mentioned that you do have some backup Phanatics in case, I’m assuming, there’s certain times you might get sick or what have you and can’t do it. And has that always been the case of having a couple of backups? 

Tom Burgoyne 14:52 

Yes, always have. The Phanatic will make anywhere between 600 and 700 outside appearances a year. So, we do kind of split those up again. That’s how I got my start working, those appearances. And then after Dave left in ‘93, I really did have a run of 25 years, really, not missing a game. I did pretty good, 25 or more, actually. My first son was born in the middle of a home stand. And so, yeah, I did miss, we had Phoebe Phanatic, the Phanatic’s mom entertain the two nights that my wife was in labor for two days. And so, unfortunately, I had to miss those two days back in 1995. But then once he was born, thankfully, my other kids were born during road trips, so I was able to not miss any games. But no, it’s really great, having a couple guys who can help with those appearances is invaluable. 

Hank Smith 15:54 

Right. Let’s shift gears a little bit and talk about your book, Pheel the Love, that’s P-H-E-E-L, and really what motivated you to write a business book on love being such a powerful force. 

Tom Burgoyne 16:16 

Yeah, it’s a great story, Hank. I was giving a keynote at a conference, a trade show, and I was introduced to a fellow, a local guy, Evan Marcus is his name in Cherry Hill. Him and his wife have a business. They coach executive teams and consult businesses. He heard my talk and said, “Boy, I’d love to get together. I think you’ve really got something here.” So, we started meeting, and I would just tell Evan stories and just some themes would pop up. And, one day, I met him for lunch. I was a little late, and I just told him a very off-the-cuff story. I went to lunch with my three kids and my wife, and the waitress found out what I did for a living, and the first words out of her mouth was, “I love you.” Of course, my wife rolls her eyes. She’s heard all this before. People get excited when they hear what I do for a living. They love the Phanatic. I just told this story to Evan. It was funny because she brings the soups over, and she’s standing there as our soup’s getting cold because she’s telling more Phanatic stories and how much she loves the Phanatic. So, Evan being from a business background kind of said, well, that’s it. What company wouldn’t want their customers and their clients and their employees to love them as much as people have this love for the Phanatic. How does the Phanatic do it? How does he create this love? How does he create loyal, loving fans? We just thought there was something there. And it’s really been awesome to spread this message, Hank. It’s really been a real blessing. 

Hank Smith 17:56 

And if we could all find an occupation that we love, it really then doesn’t become an occupation. And it is a passion. You do such a better job, and the clients are the beneficiary of whatever business you’re in. And, unfortunately, not many of us get to that place where we love what we do and we love who we do it for. 

Tom Burgoyne 18:34 

Who we do it for. No doubt, Hank. And that’s really the key. I think this book is – there’s some great customer service, how we treat our customers, but it really is also how we lead, and how do you lead your team. Not everybody has maybe a crazy, wacky, fun job like being a mascot for a professional sports team, but you go to work, and you just want to feel appreciated. You want to feel loved; you want to feel valued. And it’s kind of neat. We took a lot of what the Phanatic does, what does the Phanatic do? And it’s like, well, the first thing I looked at was, well, it was an interesting exercise for me because I don’t know, I’ve been doing this for 37 years, and why do people come up and tell me how much they love me every day? Why do they hug? Why do women cry? The reaction is really, it’s really an amazing thing. It’s like Beatlemania all over again when the fans are yelling and screaming for the Beatles. That’s kind of what it’s like. So, it was pretty neat for me to kind of step back and say, “Well, why?” One of the first things is it’s a great universal truth. If you want someone to love you, you need to love them first. And that’s what the Phanatic does. I’m out, the Phanatic’s out there high fiving. I think I should be in the Guinness Book of World Records. I think I’ve given more high fives than anybody on the planet ever. But he hugs, he’s kissing, he kind of loves you first. You mentioned going into the community; the Phanatic goes out into the community. He’s in your parade. He’s at your school or at your senior center or what have you. So, I think that’s really one of the core theories and principles that we have in the book, and I think it’s a great way to lead. 

Hank Smith 20:21 

So, you do a lot of public speaking, and you often talk with students about finding their passion. And it’s interesting, it resonated with me because when I speak with college kids that are soon to graduate, I’ll always say, “Pursue something you like and enjoy. If you’re just pursuing the money, the odds that you’re going to be happy 10, 20 years from now aren’t very high. But if you pursue something that you’re passionate about, that you love, the money will come.” But that is really, that’s a hard message for young people to receive and accept. So, tell us a little bit about what you tell young people about pursuing passion. 

Tom Burgoyne 21:22 

And I love, even at a younger age, you mentioned college students. I used to go to a career day at my kids’ elementary school, and that was always interesting because part of me, I have to keep anonymous, especially with grade school kids. I’m trying not to – but it was always interesting to talk to those kids in elementary school even, and what do you like to do? And then in high school, it’s interesting having three boys, I saw them go through that awkward period when they’re looking to go to apply to colleges, and they’re not sure what they want to do. And then they’re a little jealous, let’s say, of somebody else who, oh, that girl in my class, she knows she wants to be a nurse, or this guy knows he’s going be in computers. And so there is that stigma. I don’t know what. And of course, as parents we’re like, “Hey, don’t sweat it. It’s all good. You’ll learn. Just try to pursue some things.” But I tell the kids, there are three parts to finding your, I like to say, finding your Phanatic, find that Phanatic inside you. And the first one is it is in you. It’s in you. And I always say the easy exercises, try to think back when you were a six, seven-year-old kid, and you told your mom and dad, when I grow up, I want to be a, and a lot of times, whatever that was, what your passion was as a kid is kind of that thing that really sparks your imagination and creativity. The second thing is people see it in you, so you might not see it in yourself or know what you want to do, but people see it. And I have a great story with that. The day the Phillies called me to say that I got the job as the backup performer to Dave Raymond, again, my mind’s blown, so excited. I go to the bank, my local bank, that day, and I see a woman in there. She’s the mother of some friends of mine, Mrs. Dougherty, and she just passed. God bless Mrs. Dougherty; she just passed a couple weeks ago. But true story. I go in there, she says, “Hey Tommy, how you doing?” “Hi Mrs. Dougherty, how you doing?” And she goes, “What’s new?” I’m like, “Well, you’ll never believe this. I got a new job. Just found out I got a new job.” And she goes, “Wait, don’t tell me. You’re going to be the next Philly Phanatic.” Hank, she said that. I mean, how crazy is that? And it’s a perfect example of, hey, obviously I had it in me as a kid. People thought, hey, Tom should be the next Philly Phanatic. So, I think it’s important for kids to kind of listen to their teachers, their friends, their parents, just listen to what people are telling you. And then third, finally, I guess there are signs that it’s meant to happen. And you have to, I think, open yourself up to that and kind of watch out for those signs. I went to Drexel. I was a co-op student. I had some co-op jobs, these part-time jobs that Drexel does. And my last one when I was a senior at Drexel was working for a Halloween costume company. And I actually found myself managing 13 Halloween shops. But a lot of times I would actually have to fill in behind the counter, and I’d throw on my caveman costume and make sales for a costume. It’s like, well, that’s a sign right there. I was probably meant to wear a costume for a living. Yeah, Hank, I really do enjoy talking to schools and to the kids, especially after watching my three boys go through it. 

Hank Smith 24:49 

So, what you’re really saying is the Phanatic is in your DNA. 

Tom Burgoyne 24:57 

Yeah, I believe it. Yes. No doubt. 

Hank Smith 25:00 

Yes, absolutely. Halloween must be one of your favorite holidays of the year. 

Tom Burgoyne 25:07 

One time, I will say, I don’t say this much. One year, Hank, I actually, I stayed, my youngest stayed home with me as my two older boys went out trick-or-treating with my wife and their friends. And I did, one year, I put the costume on with my little son, who was probably only about four at the time. And the Phanatic handed out candy at my house. So, there was a little bit of a line down the street like, hey, did you hear, you got to go over to –  

Hank Smith 25:36 

So, you mentioned you do a lot of speaking engagements to corporations and other entities. How does one contact Tom Burgoyne in order to set this up? 

Tom Burgoyne 25:57 

Yeah, well, I have a website, https://tomburgoyne.com/, but also, the best way to reach me is through email, and it’s tburgoyne08@gmail.com. Easy to remember, tburgoyne08@gmail.com. The “08” is 2008, when the Phillies won the World Series. It worked its way into my Gmail address. But the Phillies have been so good to me. I’ve been a full-time employee here for, this will be my 38th season. But they’ve loved – I wrote a couple books. One was a book about the ‘93 team and, another, it was a book about moving into the new ballpark, Moving on Up it was called. And then when Pheel the Love came out, I think they really embraced the message, really supported it. And they love the fact that I go out and really kind of spread this message, and I do it through my own, on my own, which has been really nice. 

Hank Smith 26:55 

Yeah. Terrific. So, before we wrap up, do you have any favorite memories, funny stories you want to share with our listeners? 

Tom Burgoyne 27:09 

Well, the one that, well, the one story really is something to me, Hank, is I told you that I was a Philadelphia sports fan. Really was. I’m not just saying it. I was really nuts about it. And when the Phillies won in 1980, we went down, I went to St. Joe’s Prep, but the Prep was off that day, but I went with some buddies, went down to Center City, right at City Hall, we climbed a statue. And so, when the trucks came by right outside the Meridian Bank building, I don’t know if you remember, right next to the Clothespin, there’s this statue, and that Meridian Bank building had a fire years ago, and they actually took that statue down. But in 1980, it was up. I’m going crazy. Well, two days later, the Philadelphia Inquirer puts out a booklet that was the 1980 run, including pictures of the playoffs and then pictures of the parade. And on the back page of this 8×10 booklet was a full color picture, 8×10 picture of the statue with me on top. And so, when I interviewed for my job, when I came down in 1989, so this is nine years later, I come to interview, and I brought that booklet with me and I said, “Here I am up on top of the statue.” They hired me anyway; I think pole climbers in Philadelphia get a bad rap. I was one of the original pole climbers. 

Hank Smith 28:37 

And you couldn’t do it today because they put Vaseline. 

Tom Burgoyne 28:40 

They put grease on it. That’s right. It would be a lot more of a challenge. But so, anyway, now you fast forward to 2008, and the Phillies won the World Series. And, of course, we have a parade down Broad Street, and I’ll never forget, we actually load the trucks up on Spring Garden and Delaware Avenue. So, then we go down Spring Garden Street, you go down south toward Market Street, take a left like on 20th Street onto Market Street, and then you go down Market Street, then you got to go around City Hall to Broad Street. And I’ll never forget, of course there are millions of people in the street, the Phanatic is in the lead truck, and coming around City Hall and seeing that statue was back, they put it back after the fire. It was there. It wasn’t there for a lot of years, but there it was. And sure enough, there were a bunch of kids on top of the statue, and it was a real life cycle for me to, I was on the other side of the ropes back in 1980, and now, 28 years later, I’m leading the parade. So just, I guess that’s the one memory I’ll always cherish. 

Hank Smith 29:44 

I remember that World Series very well because I took my two young sons, they probably were four and six, five and seven, something like that to, I believe it was a Saturday night game of the series, World Series. And a nor’easter was coming through. And so there was about three-hour delay for the start. And my two kids were terrified because it was blowing 45, 55 miles an hour, and the game didn’t finish ‘till one in the morning. But they overcame that. And they’re still Philly fans today. 

Tom Burgoyne 30:25 

Well, in that 1993 season, we had the double header that because all the rain, we had six hours’ worth of rain delays, we didn’t finish that second game until 4:40 in the morning. And so, when I think of memories, that one game will always stick out for me. 

Hank Smith 30:42 

Well, this has been such a treat, Tom. Thank you so much for joining us on “Speaking of Quality.” I’ve enjoyed hearing about your “friendship” with the Phanatic and the many business lessons you’ve gathered from this Philadelphia icon over the decades. Thank you for listening to this episode of “Speaking of Quality.” Our next episode will be released shortly. In the meantime, please send suggestions or questions for me or the Haverford Trust team to podcast@haverfordquality.com. And don’t forget to subscribe, rate, review, and share this podcast. Until next time, I’m Hank Smith. Stay bullish. 

Maxine Cuffe 31:22 

Thank you for listening to this episode of “Speaking of Quality” with Hank Smith. To hear future episodes of “Speaking of Quality,” please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about The Haverford Trust Company, please visit https://haverfordquality.com/. This podcast is provided as general commentary and market overview, and should not be relied upon as research, a forecast, or investment advice, and is not a recommendation, offer, or solicitation to buy or sell any securities or to adopt an investment strategy. Any opinions expressed are as of the date this podcast was recorded and may change at any time and are the opinions of that commentator, not Haverford. Any opinion or information provided are believed by Haverford to be reliable at the time of this podcast’s recording but are not necessarily all-inclusive or guaranteed for accuracy. Before making any financial decisions, please consult with an investment professional.