Maxine Cuffe 00:03 

You’re listening to Speaking of Quality: Wealth Management Insights with Hank Smith. A podcast by The Haverford Trust Company. On Speaking of Quality, Hank chats with authors, influencers and wealth management experts to bring a sense of clarity and calm to the complexity and stress of personal finance. And now – here’s your host, Hank Smith. 

Hank Smith 00:25 

Hello, and welcome to another episode of “Speaking of Quality: Wealth Management Insights.” I’m your host, Hank Smith, Director and Head of Investment Strategy at The Haverford Trust Company. 

On this podcast, we explore topics ranging from quality investing, retirement resilience, stock market trends, estate planning, small business ownership, behavioral psychology and more. This season, my conversations with guests are focused on navigating change and the key decisions driving the future of the economy. Today, I’m joined by Pat Roberts and Nancy Blair, co-founders at AIM Academy and the AIM Institute for Learning and Research. Together, they have shaped AIM into what it is today and continue to influence the way education and entrepreneurship leave a lasting impact. Welcome to Speaking of Quality, Pat and Nancy. 

Pat Roberts 01:19 

Thanks, Hank. We appreciate it. 

Nancy Blair 01:22 

Yeah, thank you. 

Hank Smith 01:22 

Before we jump into AIM, can you tell our listeners a little bit about your background? What brought you together, and what inspired you to create AIM Academy? 

Nancy Blair 01:35 

Well, you’re going back a number of years, Hank, and so I will start out with, we met when our girls were five. They are now 35. So, this journey and friendship and partnership has been for a number of years. And prior to meeting each other, Pat and I were on very parallel lives, but we didn’t realize it. At that time, we thought perhaps we were the only mothers who had children who learned differently. And so, when we met, and we continued to have this dialogue, and at that time our girls were in school, and it was a lonely path at times because you don’t have the answers. And we were just saying today, this month is Dyslexia Awareness Month. And although we both saw signs and red flags, no one would confirm those red flags. No one would say to us, “these are signs of dyslexia.” 

And so, we both went and had our girls tested As a result, it came back and said, dyslexia. They tell me this is neurological in origin. I used to be a nurse anesthetist. So, I’m like, great, this is brain-based. There has to be a lot of research in the brain, and if it’s neurological in origin, there must be research of what we should do. Well, no one could tell me what that research was. And so, when Pat and I met, we were just equally frustrated because although she had been in the education field, neither one of us felt like we had the answers to help our girls. And yet there’s nothing we would not have done to help them. And so, when we kept on looking out for different opportunities of what we could do to benefit, we met Sally Smith, the founder of the Lab School of Washington. 

And at that time, she shared with us that her board wanted to replicate. And at that time, Pat and I were not interested in starting a school, but if you ever knew Sally Smith, she does not take no for an answer. And so, she convinced us to do it. And the rest is history. We are now celebrating our 20th anniversary. Our friendship and partnership has gone back even more than that to 30-plus years. But it just goes to speak that if you have a mutual passion and you have different strengths and different talents and you blend those with respect, what can happen and be built. 

Hank Smith 04:23 

And Pat, before you chime in, I think in full disclosure, I sort of really should have prefaced that AIM Academy is for, and Nancy alluded to it, is for children with reading disabilities like dyslexia. And I can relate to that because both my brother and I had dyslexia 50-plus years ago. We went to a specialized school in New England for that. And I can speak personally to what AIM does because I had two nieces that just finished at AIM Academy. So, it really is a fascinating, what you do is critical and fascinating, the whole story. So Pat, excuse me for interrupting. Please continue. 

Pat Roberts 05:14 

Well, Hank, I think you mentioned something really important. So, as Nancy said, our backgrounds are very different, but I think it’s that unique blend of education and a medical background, a research background. And so, with your nieces and even you personally, we were driven to not have people say, “well, what is dyslexia?” I mean, even though our journey isn’t 50 years, but it’s 30 years in. Even today, families are coming to us and saying, “well, I was told there’s no such thing as dyslexia. I was told there’s no such thing as what I’m experiencing with my child.” And we don’t want that to happen for any child. At the same time, I know your nieces well, and they’re amazing. And so, we run the program all the way through 12th grade, as you know. And what happens is not only working on reading and writing and mathematics as a way of really preparing them academically, but what I love about what we see blossom for our students is that we expose them to the different interests and passion areas that they can explore. So, whether it’s the arts or it’s robotics or it’s engineering or on the stage, they get to see themselves in a positive way, and they get to thrive in that environment. So, it’s really exciting to see. 

Hank Smith 06:47 

So, AIM today runs from first grade through 12th grade, but it didn’t start out from first to 12th. Tell us a little bit about those beginning years and some of the challenges and the successes that allowed you to flourish to a one through 12, rather large school. 

Nancy Blair 07:10 

Well, I think it is an interesting story in the sense that we started out in a 100-year-old parochial school building in Manayunk, and the school closed, and we started with 24 students in 2006. As I mentioned previously, this is our 20th anniversary. So, 25-26 is our 20th year, and we now have 400 students. And we have students that have moved here from Florida, from California, from Boston, Atlanta, from the Netherlands, Spain. And I’m sure there’s other places that I am missing. But it just goes to show, number one, what parents will do if there’s an answer for their children. And number two, the need. And I think that’s the piece of it that when you were talking about the challenges, one of our challenges was realizing that yes, we can service these students here at AIM, but what about all the other AIM students in every classroom in America? And that’s why we decided that the outreach was equally as important. And so, we have the AIM Institute for Learning and Research, where we have just trained over 50,000 teachers across the US, and that’s really as important to us. The school shows what works, and we bring the researchers in to work with us because we need to keep learning 

Hank Smith 08:48 

Before we delve into AIM Institute, which really is international in scope, let’s talk about those early years because I’m sure you ran on a shoestring budget, and you didn’t have an endowment. You were tuition dependent, and you started this three years before the great financial recession and bear market. How did you get through that? 

Pat Roberts 09:17 

Well, I think what people don’t realize when they think of a school is that it is a business, and we could not fulfill our mission, we could not pay our teachers, we could not be there for families if we did not run it and try to overcome all the early entrepreneurial challenges just like many experience. Well, first of all, we did not have an endowment. We did not have a large cash infusion. We were literally having our tuition. We were giving a lot of the money away for scholarship, and even still we’re able to balance our budget. So, Hank be very proud of us. We were never in the red. We never ran in the red. 

Hank Smith 10:05 

You are the first educator, you used a term a few minutes ago. We ran it like a business. Now I have been on numerous school boards as a trustee, and I can guarantee you I’ve never heard an administrator at any school say, “we’re going to run this like a business.” What a neat concept. Maybe that should spread. 

Pat Roberts 10:28 

Well, I think it is a message we would also like to bring to all nonprofits, whether you’re an educational nonprofit or serving your community in a different way. What we focused on very, very early was alternative revenue streams. We knew even in 2006, before 2008, that we could not be dependent on tuition alone. And so, we always had teacher training. We were doing speech and language assessments. We were teaching and doing outside tutoring for our community. So, we were generating different means of income. And I think that the message we would give all nonprofits is take a look at your value proposition. We had these incredible educators and service providers, so we were able to leverage our intellectual property and be able to offer it as part of our mission. We always had this mission of dissemination and educational outreach, but then it also created other revenue streams. And so, when 2008 hit, we were, like you said, Hank, we were two years in. We did not have anything to fall back on. We did not have an endowment two years into our 20-year history, but we could help our families because we had other income coming in to support our staff, our personnel fees, our overhead, our rent, et cetera. 

Hank Smith 12:09 

And over 2008, 2009 and 10, you didn’t have any attrition? No. You kept all your students. That’s a testament to the education that you’re delivering. 

Pat Roberts 12:22 

We were still growing almost anywhere from 70 to a hundred percent growth every year, year on year, because we were heavily in our growth mode, hence we had to look for another property. As Nancy said, we were in these little closed parochial school buildings that we were renting. And in five years, we were able to exercise our option to move on and begin to look for a full-time property here in Conshohocken, right outside of Philadelphia. 

Hank Smith 12:56 

Right. And when was the AIM Institute for Research actually formalized? Because it sounded like you were doing some of this before you actually formalized, and is it a separate entity wholly owned by AIM Academy? Tell us a little bit about that structure, and is it a profit center in and of itself? 

Nancy Blair 13:20 

Well, believe it or not, AIM Institute started simultaneously with AIM Academy in 2006. So, our outreach at that time was all in person. We were, at that time, delivering professional development, bringing top-notch researchers in the area to the basement of the church that was across the street from us. And so, the big joke was, if there was a funeral that day and the organs started playing, we just stopped, and then we continued to go. We even had, believe it or not, somebody had knocked on the door of the church one time and asked if any of our staff could assist with some of the items that they needed, and I will share. They needed another pallbearer, and they wanted to know if one of our staff could help. So, being the community-minded people that we are, we agreed. And so, at that time, 2006, we might’ve had a handful of people in that room to listen to the training. 

Sometimes, if we delivered the training in the summer, you would have teachers that worked abroad, maybe in different countries, and then they would come over for the training. But again, we weren’t scalable at that time. And so, it was prior to COVID, and you would’ve thought that maybe we knew COVID was coming, but we decided that to benefit ourselves, we would put all of our professional development that we had worked on through the years, that we would put it online. And so, we aligned ourselves with the International Dyslexia Association. We got accreditation from there. We worked with our staff and top researchers from around the country, from whether it was Mass General, whether it was Florida Center for Reading Research, et cetera. We worked with them in tandem to create these courses. So, we now have a number of courses that have college credits that can work with them. 

And we now have 50,000 teachers that we are training. So, you asked the question about AIM is one umbrella, it’s 1 501(c)3. And under that umbrella is AIM Academy and AIM Institute for Learning and Research. They work in tandem with each other because what we put on the courses are what we see works and we’ve researched in the classroom, so that anything that goes out there, we’ve already tested on that piece of it. Can it provide as a profit center? There are years that yes, and then when I explain this. So, our teachers are the facilitators for these teachers across the country, and we will we give them a stipend over and above their salaries. So, we have figured out ways without increasing tuition, we have figured out ways to reward our staff, whether it be that they write some of these courses or that they are facilitators with the courses. And I think that’s the one piece that we’re really proud of, that we know that parents can only afford so much tuition. And if you only keep increasing tuition, then you’re making what we do not attainable for most families. But if we can train the teachers elsewhere and still increase the teachers’ salaries by providing stipends for this, I think we’ve created a win-win solution. 

Hank Smith 17:10 

This is just a fascinating story of success and how fortuitous that you started an online program prior to COVID, and so there was no catching up, there was no nothing. You just kept plowing ahead. The Haverford Trust Company as well had a very fortuitous break in 2013 when the Federal Reserve, because we are under the Federal Reserve umbrella and they audit us every year, asked us to demonstrate, to be able to work remotely, to be able to do every single function remotely. So, every snowstorm, whether it was two inches or two feet, we would close the office and demonstrate we could work remotely, so that when COVID happened, we were off and running, and there were no hiccups. And again, very, very fortunate. It would appear to me: you must attract a very special teacher. And most teachers are very special because it’s a passion, and they like to help people. They like to help younger people, and they make great sacrifices in terms of compensation because they probably can go into a lot of other fields that they could earn more. But it’s that passion to help people. Do you have a good retention in your teacher staff over the years? It would appear that the answer is probably yes. 

Pat Roberts 18:41 

Yes. We’re very proud of the retention for many of the reasons Nancy mentioned. I think it’s unusual for dedicated teachers to firsthand have the opportunity to speak directly to researchers whose articles they are reading. And I think they see that. And I also think, if you look at it from a business perspective, from the beginning, we created a vision, and for our staff, we created a chart, a visual, that indicated all the ways they personally could advance over these 20 years. So, we would have different focus areas where they could become the administrators of the school itself, or as Nancy said, they could begin to be curriculum developers of AIM Pathways, our online course, or our courses inside. They could be research scholars working directly. And so, as a result, our teachers, many of them have not just advanced degrees at a master’s level, but we have a very large number with their PhDs or currently I think we’re currently have three working on their PhD programs. And these are rigorous. And what the teachers tell us is that they feel like they’re light years ahead of their cohorts in these universities. And we’re talking major universities out there. And so, our partnerships with the researchers from Yale, from Stanford, and as Nancy said, so many other places, that is very hard to be connected at that level. And so, they respect that, and they appreciate that. 

Hank Smith 20:35 

So going back to looking at this as a business, which I think for schools is a very novel concept. One of the most important roles a CEO has, and let’s call you co-CEOs, Nancy and Pat, is succession. And so, two-part question: Have you thought about succession? If our listeners could see you, you look way too young to retire. Have you thought about succession? And two, where do you see AIM Academy 20 years from now? Because the first 20 has been remarkable. 

Pat Roberts 21:17 

Well, Nancy and I can flip a coin on this one. So, from day one, you’ll get a chuckle out of this. Our founding board chair, Marvin Demchick, who’s since deceased, but he was an amazing guy, and I think we were two days on the job, so to speak. And he said, “So what’s your succession plan?” We looked younger 20 years ago, Hank, but I think what we want to say is we have seen schools not take the time to have a succession plan. We’ve seen them go out of business. We’ve seen them struggle when the succession plan was not in place. So, it’s very intentional on our part. So, with the support of the board, three years-plus ago, we brought on the head of the AIM Academy. So, we now have a head of school, Annette Fallon. She’s doing an amazing job, now in her fourth year. 

Likewise, our two major divisions. So, we brought on last year the head of the AIM Institute, Kristen Wynn, who is well known in our industry as one of the major drivers of the Mississippi turnaround. And Mississippi was 50th in the country in literacy, and now they’re ninth. And Kristen Wynn was very involved throughout all of that. So, both of these women have incredible reputations. And also recently, in order to be over the entire 501(C)3, we brought in our CEO, Al Chiaradonna, who has been on our board probably, I don’t know, 13 years, was a proud alum parent and who had transitioned out of his corporate organization. So now we have everything in place. So now since you were so kind to say how young we are, now we get to really do what we love doing, which is continue the innovation of AIM, looking out into the future, looking at the tools and technology that we can bring to bear on the education market. 

As you said, education just is 15, 20 years behind what corporations are looking to do. And we want to bring that innovation and creativity to education. We think we still have gas in the tank as Nancy calls it. And we would love to see how some of the tools we’re working on, like Knowledge Navigator, which would assess what a teacher’s knowledge is and also then be able to create individualized teacher training programs with our tools and technology. Likewise for different community platforms. There’s a great future out there for AIM Academy. Nancy, you may want to share some of the things we’re doing with the Hub, our Global Innovation Center at AIM. 

Nancy Blair 24:13 

So last year we had a ribbon cutting for our Global Innovation Hub. And it really is exciting because in there they are doing certifications for students with zSpace. They are bringing in corporations and companies to come work with our students. We are continually working at bringing in the highest level of technology to expose our students, whether even from a science aspect of it, whether it, believe it or not, whether it’s gaming or coding. And the big piece right now is even AI. We don’t know enough yet about AI. So, we are starting to work with some of the top researchers to really understand how does that impact the education for our students. So, I think those are the pieces that as Pat said, this is what we love to do now is be the forward scouts. We also have had a great opportunity to present in front of foundations predominantly, believe it or not, in New York City because they want to continue our work in New York City, but they realize the city is struggling with the budget. So, these are the type of things that Pat and I really enjoy doing is opening the doors for AIM to continually scale. And when we first started 20 years ago, Pat thought we might go out of business. And I looked at her and I said, I don’t think in our lifetime and sadly –  

Pat Roberts 25:55 

Put ourselves out of business. Isn’t this simple? Everyone should be able to do this. 

Nancy Blair 26:01 

And that’s when I looked at her, and I said, no, I don’t think so. But there are still a lot of people out there that do not know what a learning difference is, who are not comfortable to say like yourself or our daughters to say, I learn differently. I have dyslexia. And that’s the one piece that in my lifetime and paths, I think we’d really still like to get that message out there that if our students are taught the way they learn, there’s no ceiling. They can keep on going. And I think that’s the one piece that we thank you for helping us get this message out. 

Hank Smith 26:44 

It should come as no surprise to our listeners that in November of 2022, you both received the International Dyslexia Association’s Excellence in Leadership Award, the most prestigious international award for dyslexia and clearly very well deserved. And you’re thinking miles ahead and years ahead. So, after paying you that compliment, I’d like to put you both on the spot. We all know, in the United States, public K through 12 is floundering. The reading scores are terrible. They’re throughout almost all grade levels. The best I could describe it is flounder-less leadership. If you two were the queens of public education, K through 12, what would you be doing differently? And I know this; I’m putting you on the spot. It’s a very, very broad question, but what should the leaders of public education be doing that they’re not doing now? 

Pat Roberts 27:58 

Well, Hank, Nancy and I believe that you have to start with leadership. There are important principles of leadership, and leaders are the leaders of the academics but also of literacy. And so, they have to educate themselves to a certain degree and then support those teachers who do care. They do want to make a difference, but they are not getting all of the training. It is about knowledge, teacher knowledge, leader knowledge and being continually learning. And so, researchers are at the ready to partner with our schools. They want to help make this difference. But if the leadership is not ready or attuned to this research that’s coming out and ever evolving, then it will be very difficult to make substantial change. 

Hank Smith 28:55 

So, correct me if I’m wrong, if you become a public-school teacher, you need to have a degree in education. So, are you suggesting that at that level they’re not getting that, that degree doesn’t mean as much as it really should? 

Nancy Blair 29:10 

Well, I think Pat and I strongly believe, and I would say that of the majority of our colleagues, the schools of higher ed do need to have significant focus on teacher knowledge based on the science of reading. And one of the pieces what Pat was talking about is absolutely the leader. Leader knowledge needs to be at the heart of where you move through. But if you look at what Mississippi did, they had legislation, they had a mandate of when the teachers needed to complete their training. Now this is training that they have to do after they’ve graduated. So just think of in a perfect world, if we could get those teachers coming out of the universities with this knowledge already because teachers are tired, and so they come home and now they’re taking these additional courses, but it’s needed because if you look at teacher knowledge, then they can work with the curriculum and know how to supplement. 

But the other thing Mississippi did, and there’s another state that did a beautiful job too: Louisiana. Both of those states funded the initiative, and it’s the one thing that we see. There are different states that have put in legislation, they’ve put in a certain mandate on that piece, but then they don’t fund it. Well, school districts don’t have the funding to do this, which is why for New York City, they’re fortunate, they have a lot of foundations that care deeply about this work and are funding it. But in Pennsylvania right now, we are still in a holding pattern. We need to get structured literacy as a mandate, and we need to fund it. I say all the time that when you look at our reading scores, not all those children have dyslexia. So, if we don’t look at – these children are our greatest investment of all times. 

And if you don’t learn to read, there are not many opportunities or options in life. So, for us, this is one of the greatest investments, that whether it’s corporations supporting it, foundations supporting it, or state budgets, we need this now. These children don’t have another 20 years to wait. And that’s one of the things I think it hits us hard because quite honestly, we do not get the girls up. We did not get the school in time to benefit our girls. So, if a student hasn’t had the ability to come here, that shouldn’t be that it’s the luck of if your mother knows how to keep on getting you tutoring or getting you to a boarding school or getting you to someplace on that piece of it, not everybody has that advantage. And we have to be able to give the kids that advantage. 

Hank Smith 32:12 

Well, if I was governor of Pennsylvania, I’d appoint one of you as czar and talk the president into appointing the other as czar for the United States Department of Education. Very, very, very well said. Not easy to execute, but you’ve started on a small scale that has just blossomed. I mean, just look at how many, you mentioned 50,000 teachers your institute has impacted, and I can only imagine five years from now it’s going to be another 50,000 and probably double or triple that. So, you have to start somewhere. You’ve done it with AIM. Congratulations. What a success story, and we just wish you the best in your future and future endeavors. And thank you so much for joining us on Speaking of Quality. It’s been a pleasure to learn about AIM Academy and the AIM Institute and discussing your leadership journeys and the future of education. Before we conclude today’s Speaking of Quality episode, Pat and Nancy, could you share for our listeners where they can learn more about AIM and the contact information both for the school and the institute? 

Pat Roberts 33:35 

Well, there are two websites depending on which side of the house you want to visit first. So, AIM Academy is at https://www.aimpa.org/. If you’re a parent or someone interested in visiting AIM to see what we do here. And then if you are a teacher, a leader, an educator, and you would like to learn more about the courses, go to https://institute.aimpa.org/. 

Hank Smith 34:05 

Thank you for sharing in this episode of Speaking of Quality: Wealth Management Insights. Our next episode will be released shortly. In the meantime, please send suggestions or questions for me or The Haverford Trust team to marketing@haverfordquality.com. And don’t forget to subscribe, rate, review, and share this podcast. Until next time, I’m Hank Smith. Stay bullish. 

Bryan Tracy 34:32 

Hello, all. That was a great episode. It’s time for “Planning in Practice.” I’m Bryan Tracy, Vice President and Director of Wealth Planning at Haverford Trust. In this segment, we’ll uncover key insights and tangible advice for your own wealth planning journey. I really enjoyed the discussion between Nancy and Pat and Hank. I’ve had the opportunity to attend a few AIM galas and fundraisers in the past, and it’s always wonderful to hear the stories of the students, and even adults at this point, where AIM and the academy as well as the institute have impacted their lives and really provided an opportunity for them to be successful in their professional careers in college and life, et cetera. So really enjoyed that conversation. They talked a lot about education. Obviously AIM Academy is an education institute or a school, and it’s an area that we talk with our clients when it comes to their financial planning as far as planning for their family’s education. 

It’s always better to be starting those conversations early and planning because it provides that opportunity for growth of investments for those objectives into the future. It provides cashflow planning opportunities as well as tax benefits. When we think about savings for education, two main types of accounts kind of come to mind. We put together a nice piece here at Haverford that provides pros and cons of both and the various variables, but the first one really being a 529 plan, and that’s the account, the vehicle that you hear most associated with savings for education. The reason for that is 529 plan investments and savings accounts do grow tax-deferred, so the earnings are growing tax-deferred over time. And then the distributions can be, in most cases, would be tax-free distributions where you’re not actually paying the taxes on the growth that you’ve had in those accounts over the time period because they are set up that if you’re paying for qualified education expenses, you’re able to take a tax-free distribution, which is based off of our federal tax law. So, a lot of nice benefits there. One downside, one question we get from clients is, well, what if I don’t use it for education expenses or I don’t have the need there, my child doesn’t go to college or need those expenses. That is a potential downside. There are some potential tax implications of taking distributions, some potential penalties, but with 529 plans, they’re very flexible vehicles in that they can be legacy vehicles where you can lead them to the next generation to be used for future education expenses as well as changes in beneficiary designations, or the beneficiary of those plans are pretty flexible as far as depending on the relationship. Sibling to sibling, money can be moved around where there’s not a tax hit or penalty to that. The tax bill, a couple of tax bills over the past few years, have actually made 529 plans more flexible in that funds now could be actually transferred over into a Roth IRA depending on certain limitations. So that’s a great use of non-used funds in the account. And with the recent tax bill in July, there actually expanded the usage as far as what qualifies as an education expense. So, it’s really opened up the opportunity to use them in more cases for that tax-free benefit. They also provided for a higher dollar amount that could be used to pay for primary or secondary, so pre-college, expenses, so private schools, et cetera, and using funds from a 529 plan. So very flexible in that nature and a great vehicle. The other account I mentioned, or UGMA account, they are more flexible as far as how the distributions can be used. They’re not primary for education. They’re not necessarily as tax beneficial because the investment income capital gains are taxed on an annual basis, but they could be used for a home purchase in the future or a car or really anything that the beneficiary would need the funds for. One big downside to an UGMA account is that the funds are for a beneficiary. The beneficiary does take over ownership of those funds at age of majority. So, depending on the state, it could be 18 or 21. So we could be talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on how much you’ve saved into these accounts going to the beneficiary at that point, which is a concern for a lot of parents and a lot of our clients. So, with a 529 plan, there’s more ownership and control over a much longer period of time until one is ready to receive funds or transfer funds, et cetera. So, it doesn’t have to be an and/or between the vehicles; it can be a combination of both. This is where we talk with our clients to understand what their objectives are for savings for their kids, their grandkids, et cetera. And we’ll really get into the details around that. One other program that I know AIM, and a lot of the schools here in the area that benefit from, and it’s a great vehicle or a great program, is the education income tax credit. But the EITC program here in Pennsylvania is the ability to pay a private school, et cetera, and then not having to pay the state income tax. So, you’re receiving a credit to offset Pennsylvania state income tax. We just encourage our clients – so, this conversation is resonating with you around thinking about planning for education for your kids, for your grandkids, we want to make sure we’re planning early, so we’re a resource, we’re available to have these discussions of which accounts, how to be thinking about this as far as it relates to one’s financial plan. And please don’t hesitate to reach out to set up a meeting and start the discussion today. Thank you. 

Maxine Cuffe 40:00 

Thank you for listening to this episode of Speaking of Quality: Wealth Management Insights with Hank Smith. To hear future episodes of Speaking of Quality, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about The Haverford Trust Company, please visit https://haverfordquality.com/. This podcast is provided as general commentary and market overview, and should not be relied upon as research, a forecast or investment advice, and is not a recommendation, offer or solicitation to buy or sell any securities or to adopt an investment strategy. Any opinions expressed are as of the date this podcast was recorded and may change at any time and are the opinions of that commentator, not Haverford. Any opinion or information provided are believed by Haverford to be reliable at the time of this podcast’s recording, but are not necessarily all-inclusive or guaranteed for accuracy. Before making any financial decisions, please consult with an investment professional.